Comments on: Stop the Insanity! Don’t Call It “Conversational Marketing” http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/ Personal and Professional Thoughts on Life and Marketing Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:41:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: It’s About Conversation, Not Marketing | Chris Heuer's Insytes http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-95393 It’s About Conversation, Not Marketing | Chris Heuer's Insytes Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:23:21 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-95393 [...] Shel Israel are friends) This is something I was writing about last summer in the post entitled, Stop the Insanity, Don’t Call it Conversational Marketing, and more recently in response to a Doc Searls post (keep getting better Doc, we’re with you) [...] [...] Shel Israel are friends) This is something I was writing about last summer in the post entitled, Stop the Insanity, Don’t Call it Conversational Marketing, and more recently in response to a Doc Searls post (keep getting better Doc, we’re with you) [...]

]]> By: Kip http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-72889 Kip Sat, 01 Mar 2008 16:14:54 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-72889 I'm not too up on conversational marketing, but I do believe in having conversations--it's called salesmanship. Your efforts are all going to boil down to WHETHER OR NOT the receipent of the communication LIKES YOU, that will decide if anything you do or say is going to have an impact on your bottom line. If he doesn't like you (and you'll never know because nobody is a mind reader) forget it. No about of scientific data or metrics or data is going to answer this question for you. That's why marketing never definitive--it's just learning what worked and what didn't work and following trends. It seems that many master-degreed stuffed shirts who are accountable only to their budget spend, have it all figured out. They THINK that as long as they have the mission internally defined for themselves, that the customer will just trip over him or herself to buy this product, while completely sabotaging the relationship and "real person" and "this is a product that will truly benefit you". Peace out. I’m not too up on conversational marketing, but I do believe in having conversations–it’s called salesmanship. Your efforts are all going to boil down to WHETHER OR NOT the receipent of the communication LIKES YOU, that will decide if anything you do or say is going to have an impact on your bottom line. If he doesn’t like you (and you’ll never know because nobody is a mind reader) forget it. No about of scientific data or metrics or data is going to answer this question for you. That’s why marketing never definitive–it’s just learning what worked and what didn’t work and following trends.

It seems that many master-degreed stuffed shirts who are accountable only to their budget spend, have it all figured out. They THINK that as long as they have the mission internally defined for themselves, that the customer will just trip over him or herself to buy this product, while completely sabotaging the relationship and “real person” and “this is a product that will truly benefit you”.

Peace out.

]]> By: michael brito http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-40605 michael brito Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:54:26 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-40605 Hey Chris - great post. I'm here at BlogWorld in Vegas and "conversational marketing" has already been mentioned more than once; and it's still the first day. Conversational marketing, market conversations or as you mentioned "market engagement"...to me, they all mean the same thing. As long as marketers stay true to the characteristics mentioned in Cluetrain, I really don’t think it’s an issue, nor will dilute the true intent of online conversations. Michael Hey Chris - great post. I’m here at BlogWorld in Vegas and “conversational marketing” has already been mentioned more than once; and it’s still the first day.

Conversational marketing, market conversations or as you mentioned “market engagement”…to me, they all mean the same thing. As long as marketers stay true to the characteristics mentioned in Cluetrain, I really don’t think it’s an issue, nor will dilute the true intent of online conversations.

Michael

]]> By: PR2.0 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-35731 PR2.0 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:26:15 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-35731 <strong>Conversational Marketing vs. Market Conversations...</strong> If it’s one thing that we can learn about Social media is that that people and the markets they represent have rallied against marketing and slick marketers and have demanded personalization, transparency, and sincerity. Social Media is about brea.... Conversational Marketing vs. Market Conversations…

If it’s one thing that we can learn about Social media is that that people and the markets they represent have rallied against marketing and slick marketers and have demanded personalization, transparency, and sincerity.

Social Media is about brea….

]]> By: Valley PR Blog » Blog Archive » 5 Reasons to Use Social Networks http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-35729 Valley PR Blog » Blog Archive » 5 Reasons to Use Social Networks Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:12:34 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-35729 [...] (2) PR 2.0 is what you do with people, not to people, as I believe Chris Heuer once said. (see his post on conversational marketing).  [...] [...] (2) PR 2.0 is what you do with people, not to people, as I believe Chris Heuer once said. (see his post on conversational marketing).  [...]

]]> By: Soumya Dev http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-35507 Soumya Dev Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:49:33 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-35507 My previous post "Conversational Marketing v/s Market Conversations" completely missed out on the other side of the coin, but this post by Rajesh on Blogger Outreach (by communications professionals) is an interesting insight. Check it out here: http://www.blogworks.in/blog/public_relations_1/wearing_the_public_relations_h.php#more "A case of bad reputation, for the keeper of reputation itself" Taking the cue from Rajesh's view - How to play it right??? Some good blogger relations campaigns (as suggested by some Bloggers on their blogs) have also had their share of criticisms. The Ogilvy Blogger Outreach Code of Ethics is a great start. Blogger Outreach as a concept is too new to have error-free standards, quite controversial to entail accusations on breach of conduct, vulnerable enough for 'bad' practices to threaten it, but viable enough to become the driving aspect of future marketing efforts. This leads to another question of playing it right? What is the role of a campaign blogger? What is the Best Practice for a blogger who participates in a campaign? My previous post “Conversational Marketing v/s Market Conversations” completely missed out on the other side of the coin, but this post by Rajesh on Blogger Outreach (by communications professionals) is an interesting insight. Check it out here: http://www.blogworks.in/blog/public_relations_1/wearing_the_public_relations_h.php#more

“A case of bad reputation, for the keeper of reputation itself”

Taking the cue from Rajesh’s view - How to play it right???
Some good blogger relations campaigns (as suggested by some Bloggers on their blogs) have also had their share of criticisms.

The Ogilvy Blogger Outreach Code of Ethics is a great start. Blogger Outreach as a concept is too new to have error-free standards, quite controversial to entail accusations on breach of conduct, vulnerable enough for ‘bad’ practices to threaten it, but viable enough to become the driving aspect of future marketing efforts.

This leads to another question of playing it right?

What is the role of a campaign blogger?

What is the Best Practice for a blogger who participates in a campaign?

]]> By: Soumya Dev http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-33158 Soumya Dev Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:01:13 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-33158 Hi Chris, For the last couple of days, have been thinking why has it become a "must" for brands to leverage the power of conversations on the Web 2.0 platform. And this is what is in my mind... Brands today cannot expect to 'Influence' decisions ... the game now is all about collective intelligence, or perhaps what you can call as 'Confluence'. Confluence = Content --> Conversation --> Influence Learnings from disastrous mistakes of known brands and stupendous feats of 'little-known' brands have made it clear that you cannot be successful by shouting aloud (it's not about your ad-spends alone) ... often, people respond better to lowered voices spoken in credible tones. What does the consumer do on Web 2.0, perhaps a mix (or all) of the ones below: - Collect (alerts, feeds, ...): How important is it to SHARE about your brand??? - Entertain: Can you make him to ENGAGE with your brand??? - Network: Can he be - the brand EVANGELIST??? - Express views: Does a DIALOGUE help to make better products or offer better services??? In short, it helps you SEED your brand in the minds of the consumer, and drive brand loyalty! Hi Chris,

For the last couple of days, have been thinking why has it become a “must” for brands to leverage the power of conversations on the Web 2.0 platform. And this is what is in my mind…
Brands today cannot expect to ‘Influence’ decisions … the game now is all about collective intelligence, or perhaps what you can call as ‘Confluence’.
Confluence = Content –> Conversation –> Influence

Learnings from disastrous mistakes of known brands and stupendous feats of ‘little-known’ brands have made it clear that you cannot be successful by shouting aloud (it’s not about your ad-spends alone) … often, people respond better to lowered voices spoken in credible tones.

What does the consumer do on Web 2.0, perhaps a mix (or all) of the ones below:
- Collect (alerts, feeds, …): How important is it to SHARE about your brand???
- Entertain: Can you make him to ENGAGE with your brand???
- Network: Can he be - the brand EVANGELIST???
- Express views: Does a DIALOGUE help to make better products or offer better services???

In short, it helps you SEED your brand in the minds of the consumer, and drive brand loyalty!

]]> By: Soumya Dev http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-33155 Soumya Dev Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:33:18 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-33155 I feel the underlying thought that the Human-to-Human conversations pose a danger of losing the essence of inter-personal conversations, can help evaluate what's ethical to be done and what's not. My personal take is: Brands do have a right to express themselves or their views... as long as they do not over-do it... for the simple reason that it involves the "market" ... call it "Conversational Marketing" or "Market Conversations". Why have a monolgue? If you are talking brands, let brands also talk... I feel the underlying thought that the Human-to-Human conversations pose a danger of losing the essence of inter-personal conversations, can help evaluate what’s ethical to be done and what’s not.
My personal take is: Brands do have a right to express themselves or their views… as long as they do not over-do it… for the simple reason that it involves the “market” … call it “Conversational Marketing” or “Market Conversations”.
Why have a monolgue? If you are talking brands, let brands also talk…

]]> By: Markets are conversations - but not all conversations are marketing. at Web Jungle http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-33024 Markets are conversations - but not all conversations are marketing. at Web Jungle Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:11:38 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-33024 [...] Dave Weinberger, one of the authors of the cluetrain manifesto (”markets are conversations”) expresses his concerns over the increasing wrong adoption of this idea by marketeers. In a comment to this post by Chris Heuer, he writes the following: Marketing has to change. It has to recognize that market conversations are now the best source of information about companies and their products and services. It has to recognize that those conversations are not themselves marketing — you and me talking about whether we like our new digital cameras is not you and me marketing to each another. Neither is our conversation a “marketing opportunity.” But the temptation to see it as such is well nigh impossible for most marketers to resist. [...] [...] Dave Weinberger, one of the authors of the cluetrain manifesto (”markets are conversations”) expresses his concerns over the increasing wrong adoption of this idea by marketeers. In a comment to this post by Chris Heuer, he writes the following: Marketing has to change. It has to recognize that market conversations are now the best source of information about companies and their products and services. It has to recognize that those conversations are not themselves marketing — you and me talking about whether we like our new digital cameras is not you and me marketing to each another. Neither is our conversation a “marketing opportunity.” But the temptation to see it as such is well nigh impossible for most marketers to resist. [...]

]]> By: tom troja http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-32415 tom troja Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:22:22 +0000 http://www.chrisheuer.com/2007/08/10/stop-the-insanity-dont-call-it-conversational-marketing/#comment-32415 The turn of a phrase matters. As someone who has been talking with big brands about Conversational Marketing, I find they are intrigued by the concept but most get bogged down in the fear of the negative, the corporate structure of how to talk and the manpower required. Maybe the subtle shift you suggest is not so subtle as it turns it round from a corporte enterprize like PR and marketing to something different, the market is first. A big chalenge is shifting the mindset about blowing the horn about the brand to letting people talk about themselves in relation to what you do. David's comment that "We need to help marketers resist their deeply bred urges." Is right on but what do we say to the brand dollar boys, how do we show the value, What do we say to the ROI question? That is holding this back and I would love to get your thoughts on how you position this as an investment worth the risk right now. The turn of a phrase matters. As someone who has been talking with big brands about Conversational Marketing, I find they are intrigued by the concept but most get bogged down in the fear of the negative, the corporate structure of how to talk and the manpower required.

Maybe the subtle shift you suggest is not so subtle as it turns it round from a corporte enterprize like PR and marketing to something different, the market is first. A big chalenge is shifting the mindset about blowing the horn about the brand to letting people talk about themselves in relation to what you do.

David’s comment that “We need to help marketers resist their deeply bred urges.” Is right on but what do we say to the brand dollar boys, how do we show the value, What do we say to the ROI question? That is holding this back and I would love to get your thoughts on how you position this as an investment worth the risk right now.

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